What cities reached German troops. Germans who reached the Volga

Troops fascist Germany Change the border river. The place of shooting was not installed, June 22, 1941

The beginning of the fighting of fascist Germany against the USSR. Lithuanian SSR, 1941

Parts of the German army entered the territory of the USSR (from the trophy photographs seized from the prisoners and the convicted soldiers of the Wehrmacht). The place of shooting is not installed, June 1941

Parts of the German army in the territory of the USSR (from the trophy photographs seized from the prisoners and killed soldiers of the Wehrmacht). The place of shooting is not installed, June 1941

German soldiers during the battle near Brest. Brest, 1941

German-fascist troops fight the walls Brest Fortress. Brest, 1941

German General Kruger in the vicinity of Leningrad. Leningrad Region, 1941

German units enter Vyazma. Smolensk region, 1941

Employees of the Ministry of Propaganda III Reich examine the captured Soviet light tank T-26 (photography of the Ministry of Propaganda of the Rayh). The place of shooting is not installed, September 1941

Camel captured as a trophy and used by German mountain rangers. Krasnodar Territory, 1941

A group of German soldiers in piles of Soviet canned, captured as a trophy. The place of shooting is not established, 1941

Part of the SS protects cars with a population hijacked to Germany. Mogilev, June 1943

German soldiers among the ruins of Voronezh. The place of shooting is not installed, July 1942

A group of Hitler's soldiers on one of Krasnodar's streets. Krasnodar, 1942

German soldiers in Taganrog. Taganrog, 1942

Raising the fascist flag with Nazis in one of the occupied areas of the city. Stalingrad, 1942

A detachment of German soldiers on one of the streets of the occupied Rostov. Rostov, 1942

German soldiers in the captured settlement. The place of shooting is not installed, the year of shooting is not installed.

Column of the upcoming German troops near Novgorod. Novgorod Great, August 19, 1941

A group of German soldiers in one of the busy villages. The place of shooting is not installed, the year of shooting is not installed.

Cavalry division in Gomel. Gomel, November 1941

Before digs, the Germans destroy railway in Grodno; The soldier puts fused for an explosion. Grodno, July 1944

German parts retreat between Lake Ilmen and the Finnish bay. Leningrad Front, February 1944

The retreat of the Germans from the Novgorod region. The place of shooting is not installed, January 27, 1944

The Germans in November 1941 were not included in Moscow because the dams of the reservoirs surrounding Moscow were exploded. November 29, Zhukov reported on flooding 398 settlements, without preventing the local population, in a 40-degree frost ... the water level rose to 6 meters ... Nobody considered people ...

Vitaly Dymarsky: Good evening, dear listeners. On the ether of Moscow, the next program from the "Victory price" cycle. Today I am leading her, Vitaly Dymar. And immediately introduce you to our guest - journalist, historian Iskander Kuzeva. Hello, Iskander.

Iskander Kuzeum: Hello.

And he is invited to us today it is no coincidence that it is today in the newspaper "Top Secret" the material of Iskander Kuzeva called "Pokhop Moskovsky", where we are talking On the secret operation of the autumn of 1941. The author of the article will tell in more detail, and I will do one digression and just tell you that, you see, life managed in his own way, and I repeat, we are trying to go in chronological order on the events of the Second World War, but when it comes That interesting, we return back, maybe we will still get ahead. And today we return back, in the fall of 1941, when those events that investigated and what was written by our present Guest Iskander Kuzeev. Iskander, what are we talking about? What kind of secret operation in the fall of 1941 passed and why are it about Flood?

Let's start with some preface. I was always held by the episode of November 1941, with whom I got acquainted with my memoir literature enough, in particular, recently released in Russian MEMUARY Guderian, who fought south of Moscow. Guderian's troops, the 2nd tank army, practically ended the environment of Moscow from the south. Was surrounded Tula, the troops approached Kashira, moved towards Kolomna and to Ryazan. And at this time, Soviet troops, which reflected Guderian's attacks, received reinforcements from the north of the Moscow region, where there were practically no clashes. In the north of the Moscow region and then in the Tver region, Kalinin was taken, the troops stood in the vicinity of Rogachevo and Konakovo, and the clashes there took place almost only at two points: the village of Kroikovo and Permlovsky heights between Yahroma and Dmitrov, where the troops of the Army Center "Center" opposed In fact, one armored train NKVD, who turned out to be chance - he walked from Zagorsk toward the Red Gorka, where German artillery was already standing. And there were no other clashes in this region. At the same time, already when I began to get acquainted with this topic, it became known to me that individual, literally, the units of German military equipment were penetrated into the territory of Moscow.

Is this famous case when some motorcyclists got almost to "falcon"?

Yes, yes, they were stopped on the second bridge through the railway, which was later called the Victory Bridge. There, two machine gunners of our guarded this bridge, and they were protected from airline. Motorcyclists drove the first bridge over the channel and in the area of \u200b\u200bthe current metro station "River Station", there was a bad weather, and how I was told by the researchers who were engaged in this topic, they moved down to the ice to drive the ball, at that time were 30 motorcyclists, and their Already stopped on the last bridge before the Sokol station. And there was one German tank between the current metro stations "Skhodnenskaya" and "Tushinskaya".

Volokolamsk direction.

Yes. This is the western bridge through the derivational channel in the Turkey area. And how did people tell me who were engaged in these studies, they told me in the management of the "Moscow-Volga" channel, as is now called, FSUE Channel named after Moscow, the highest building on the hill between the 7th and 8th gateways, and Such a story was passed from generation to generation, it was clear from there: some kind of lost German tank came out, stopped on the bridge, looked out a German officer, looked back and forth, something recorded something in a notebook and left somewhere in the opposite direction aside Aleshkinsky forest. And the third, there was a German artillery large-caliber on a red hill, which was already ready to fire the Kremlin, it was at this point that the armored train was moving from the north, and the locals crossed themselves through the channel and reported this guide to the Ministry of Defense, and after that, shelling this point began where the large-caliber artillery stood. But there were no troops in this place. When I began to do this topic, I found out what happened - it was exactly the event that in this publication is called "Moscow Flood".

So what was it for the flood? Just flooded a large territory in order to prevent the promotion of German troops, I understand correctly?

Yes. Exactly. On the Volokolamsk direction was blown up the Plotin of the Istrase hydraulic dispenser, which is called "Kuibysheva's hydrousel". Moreover, the waterproofs were blown below the so-called "dead mark" when the water descends to reset the spring flood. Huge streams of water in the place where the German troops fell, fell into the offensive area and several villages were washed, and the stream reached almost to Moscow River. There is a level of 168 meters above sea level, the mark of the Istra reservoir, and below its mark 143, that is, it turns out more than 25 meters. Imagine, this is such a waterfall of water that blends everything in its path, floods at home, villages. Naturally, no one was warned about it, the operation was secret.

Who carried out this operation? Troops or some civil services?

On Istra it was a military operation, that is, the engineering department of the Western Front. But another operation was also held jointly by the management of the Moscow-Volga Channel, which is now called the "Moscow channel", and the same engineering management Western Front, and ...

Another operation?

Other, in another place.

And one more was.

There was still the second, or rather, even two, since the second operation was carried out at two points. When the Germans occupied Kalinin and came up close to the Rube region "Moscow-Volga" and there was no strength to reflect these attacks, the evacuation was already preparing, Stalin was preparing to evacuate in Kuibyshev, now Samara, a meeting was held at the expense of the Supreme Command, on which it was It was decided to lower the water from all six reservoirs to the north of Moscow - Khimkinskoe, Ikshinsky, Pizhovskoye, Pestovskoye, Pirogovskoye, Klyazmin, and pull the water from the Ivankovsky reservoir, which was then called the Moscow Sea, this is from the dam at Dubna. It was done in order to hack ice and thus troops and heavy techniques would not be able to go through the Volga and the Moscow Sea and could not move the line. This line is from six near Moscow reservoirs.

First operation on the Istra reservoir, this is November 1941?

Yes, the end of November.

And others?

That is, all these operations were carried out one after the other at the end of November. And what is the result, if you can say so? What donated the Soviet command in the name to stop the German troops?

There were two options for the descent of water - from the Ivankovsky reservoir in the Volga downstream and the descent of water from the reservoir towards Moscow. But a completely different option was adopted. To the west of the canal flows the sister river, she passes through Wedge-Rogachevo and flows into the Volga below the Dubna, flows there, where the canal passes high above the surrounding area. It takes place in the tunnel under the canal. And the Yakhroma River flows into the sister river, which is also flowing much lower than the level of the channel. There is a so-called emergency yarhromsky water-boss, which in case of some repair work Allows the water from the channel to drop into the Yahroma River. And where the sister river flows under the canal, there are emergency hatches there are also provided for repair engineering facilitieswhich allow water from the canal to reset the sister to the river. And this decision was made: through pumping stationswho raise water to the Moscow reservoirs, they are all at one level of 162 meters above sea level, it was decided to let these pumps in the opposite, so-called generator mode, when they are spinning to the other side and are not consumed, and produce electricity, so this is called the generator regime, and the water has been lowered through these pumping stations, all the shutters of the gateways were opened and the huge flow of water rushed through this Yarhromsky Water Clock, flooding villages, there are at a very low level of water there are various villages, there are peat enterprises, there are peat enterprises, Experienced farms, the mass of irrigation canals in this triangle - the canal, the Yakhroma River and the Sister River, and the mass of small towns, which are located almost at the water level. And in the fall of 1941, frost is 40 degrees, ice was watched, and water flows flooded the whole surrounding area. All this was done in the setting of secrecy, so people ...

No precaution was accepted.

And at the third point, where the sister river passes under the canal, there were still constructed - there is a book of Valentina Barkovsky, the veteran of the "Moscow-Volga" channel, there is a researcher such Mikhail Arkhipov, he has a website on the Internet, where it is in detail about it It tells - there are metal gateings, which did not allow water from the sister river to flow to the Volga, and all the water, which was discharged, imagine, a huge array of water Ivankovsky reservoir went to the sister river and flooded everything around. According to Arkhipov, the level of the Yahroma River rose by 4 meters, the level of the sister's river rose by 6 meters.

Explain how you just said, in all evidence - we did not see our eyes and did not feel our skin - there was a very hard and cold winter, frosts were terrible. This water, which in huge quantities poured onto the earth's surface, it had to turn into ice.

Almost yes. First, the ice was wagoning ...

But then, in the cold, it all turned, probably in the ice?

But it does not immediately happen. I was interested in how a person can escape in such a situation. And I was a professor at the anesthesiology, with whom I talked, said that it was enough to stand half an hour on his knee in such water and a person just dies.

How many villages so far have been flooded?

In all these operations somewhere about 30-40.

But, if I'm not mistaken, was the order of the Supreme Commander of the Comrade Stalin about flooding, in my opinion, more than 300 villages around Moscow in order to stop the offensive of the Germans?

There was an order. It said not about flooding, it was said about destruction.

Villages. Actually, one story is very famous. This is where the Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya caught, these are these sabotage groups ...

Yes, this is in accordance with this order 0428 of November 17 at the rate of the Supreme Commander. And in accordance with this order, all villages should be destroyed in the depths of the front at a distance of 40-60 kilometers. Well, there is such a suitful wording that this operation is as if against the German troops. And even there was such a wording "to take off the Soviet population."

That is, sabotage groups had to carry the Soviet population with them before burning the village?

No, retreating troops were supposed to pass. But since they have already retreated and because there was an order to burn precisely those villages that were behind the front line, then this attack was just a fiction. This attitent is now, for those who protect Stalin. When individual excerpts from these materials were published in different blogs, then the mass of the Stalinists, which led this phrase, spoke in the comments.

As an example of humanism.

Yes Yes. But this phrase does not mean anything, we know. And then, when the offensive began, there was a lot of frames newsreel on the burned villages. Naturally, the question arose who burned them. There were Germans, here, operators came and removed the burned villages.

That is, wherever the Germans were, on this depth, as Comrade Stalin ordered, all these villages where the Germans stood should be destroyed in one way or another.

Did they read before Stalin?

Yes. For two weeks, they reported that 398 settlements were destroyed. And therefore, these 30-40 villages flooded - a drop in the sea ...

The tenth part, 10 percent.

Yes, and few people paid attention to this. Moreover, here in the report of Zhukov and Shaposhnikov write that the artillery was allocated for this, and aviation, and the mass of these saboteurs, 100 thousand bottles with an incendiary mixture and so on, and so on.

Is this document genuine?

Yes, it is an absolutely genuine document, there are even data where, in which archive it is located, the foundation, inventory.

In full - no.

I have never met. And in the article you give it?

We will have an addition in the next issue and we will talk about it, publish order 0428 and the report, the report of the West Council of the Western Front at the Supreme Command Rate of November 29, 1941. This immediately clarifies the whole picture.

You know what else interests me in this whole story. History, if it is diplomatic to say, a little known. And if more frankly, it is practically not known at all. We have nowhere, as I understand it, neither in military literature, nor in the memoir literature about this history of flooding has not yet been told or it was somewhere, but under some kind of vulture "one", as is called, actually saying, the newspaper, Where are you printed?

The only thing that I managed to find from the published in previous years was the book edited by Marshal Shaposhnikov, who was published in 1943, dedicated to the defense of Moscow, and she came out with a vulture "Secret" and already in last years The vulture "secretly" was removed and stood a vulture "chipboard", and it was declassified only in 2006. And in this book it was stated about the explosion of hydropors in Istra. And about the operation on the channel there was nothing said. I managed to find it only in the book that went to the anniversary of the "Moscow-Volga" channel, last year there was a 70th anniversary, and a book Valentine Barkovsky circulation was published only 500 copies. And there it is described in detail.

And this book, edited by Shaposhnikov, was removed from it all the vultures, but it apparently is just in libraries.

Well, yes, she no longer reissued.

I knew, of course, that many documents were under the griffs, but in order to release a book and immediately under the vulture "secretly", what kind of circulation could have been and for whom she was then intended?

Circulation is very small. Well, for the governing lineup.

And then what is the question. Did the Germans know about this operation and is it described somewhere in the German military literature?

Unfortunately, I could not find. When I had doubts that everything was really flooded and drill people there, I was from all this territory in the square of Yakhroma-Rogachevo-Konakovo-Dubna, and I met a lot of people, well, not that the lot of people is People of very elderly who remembered this that were told, and this story was passed from generation to generation. I was told by a resident of the village named after May 1, this is a working settlement right at the level of irrigation canals, flowing into Yahrom, and he told how grandmother survived all this, she survived. Many people did not survive, but those who survived, left memories. She told that they hid in potatoes, and several soldiers who switched to the yachroma and the irrigation canal, they simply saved them. First, there is an artillery beat from all sides. There were low absolutely shielded houses, Below even peasant iv.And naturally, artillery beat by what is visible, but it was visible with a high pipe potato. And here they say: "What are you sitting here? You will be killed now. " And the water began to act, they came out and managed on the road, which went on the embankment just above the channel, go out and go towards Dmitrov.

Iskander, tell me, is it known whether someone did such calculations, how many people died as a result of the flooding of these villages?

I have never managed to find these calculations anywhere. And when they published on blogs, I gave my familiar passages, there was a lot of objections of the people-Stalinistists, it was seen on their blogs in the "Live Journal", that these are old fans of Stalin, they said that in general there was no one to die there at all It is high above the river level, and what else is the attic, there is still a roof. But when I talked with doctors, they said that there were few chances in such a situation.

And at least known, what was the population of these villages to the flood?

There are no such calculations for specific villages. It is known that out of 27 million, now such a figure is considered to have only one third of this number to the staff of the Red Army.

Even less.

Two thirds are a peaceful population. My military said that they don't need to raise this topic at all, because any art crest is the death of the civilian population.

Iskander, I have been pubeding you and Observation of our program for a few minutes, the news release will be held for several minutes, after which we will continue our conversation.

Once again, good evening, dear listeners. We continue the program of the "Victory price", which I lead today, Vitaly Dymarsky. Let me remind you, we have a journalist, historian Iskander Kuzeev, the author of the article "Pokhob Moskovsky", published in today's issue of the newspaper "Top Secret". And about those events of the autumn of 1941, which describes Iskander Kuzhev, we talk with our guest. So, we stopped at what they tried to find out how many people lived and how many killed in those 30-40 villages, which were flooded at the special order of the Supreme Command, by resetting water from Istra and other reservoirs at the end of 1941. It is clear that these calculations are severe, we are unlikely to find the exact number. And you were not interested, how many of these villages then revived? Now they exist or have nothing left of them and everything was built in a new place?

Many villages that stood almost at the water level, they were rebuilt again. Those villages that were at a higher place they were flooded and preserved. But it is difficult to say it too, as far as they were flooded. Here I have to answer opponents that have already expressed the fact that floodings could not be at all that the village on the sister river are very low above the water level. This is due to the fact that there was no flood flooding. Here I have to make a small digression historical. The sister river is located on the highway highway, which began to be built during the times of Catherine, there is such a village on the River Istra Catherine trees, and the canal passes through the city of Solnechnogorsk, he was not completed due to the fact that he had no need. Already almost all were ready to build up. This channel is actually on the highway Moscow-Petersburg. And when the Nikolaev railway was built, the construction of the canal ceased, but all hydraulic structures were built - gateways, mills. And the sister river to Solnechnogorsk, she was all, as the riverniki say, is chatted, there was a lot of gateways, mills. And here these all old hydraulic structures did not allow the floods to be broken, so the villages on this way shipping. One village, where I visited, for example, called Ust-Pier, it is at the place of jacket of Yachroma to Istra, and at home are very low, it can be seen that if the rise was 6 meters, then all this could be flooded.

Clear. Before me, your article lies and I want to read the dialogue between Zhukov and Stalin. When Stalin says that in two days everything should be ready, his beetles objects: "Comrade Stalin, we should evacuate the population from the flooding area." What follows such an answer to the Supreme Commander: "So that the information leaked to the Germans and so that they sent their score to you? This is a war, Comrade Zhukov, we fight for victory at all costs. I already gave an order to blow up the Istra Dam. I did not even regret my cottage in Zubatovo. It could also cover the wave. " Well, I understand this, not a real dialogue? Not that fictional, but reconstructed?

This is a reconstruction, yes.

Reconstruction for some particular testimonies, apparently?

Yes. After all, the stream from the Istra reservoir practically reached the Moscow river and could flood all these country villages, cottages in Zubatovo, who are on Rublevka to the Rublevskaya Dam. The level there is 124 meters, and the level of Istra ...

And, tell me, Iskander, did you talk with any warheads, our strategists, the Military Specialists? Victims, the price of victory is the question that we are constantly discussing. And what about just pure military efficiency, was it an effective measure in order to stop the Germans?

In general, yes. After all, the front line from Kalinin to Moscow has been reduced actually to two points - the village of Krojok, known even by songs, and Permlovsk heights, where there is a monument, by the way, the only monument in Russia to General Vlasov.

Is it still worth?

Yes. There was his name, he commanded the 20th army there.

And, well, as one of, not a separate monument.

Yes. There was a shock army of Kuznetsov, when the offensive began, armored train 73 of the NKVD, some other military units, and including the 20th Army.

But after all, the same operation can be submitted differently, there was no other exit?

Well, yes, and this operation was not the only such kind. After all, on the other side there was another dictator ...

We will talk about it about it, I'm just interested in this situation. Can also be so to speak, that's how those Stalinists who object to you, well, they challenge the fact, and why they dispute itself, because it can be said that there was no other way out, yes, it was hard, conjugate with huge victims, but it nevertheless turned out to be effectively.

At the same time, yes, there was a risk that the war will end in 1941, Guderian has already received an order to move towards Gorky. There should have been troops from the north and from the south somewhere in the area of \u200b\u200bCockerels to come together ...

Well, yes, this is a famous thing that Hitler has already decided that Moscow has actually fell and you can move troops to other directions.

I want to return to the question of the number of victims again. I once again get sick to your article where you write that when they tried to find out the flooding zone and at least an approximate number of victims, then your attention was drew the villagers to another. I will again quote, in this case the quote is accurate, since you heard it yourself: "See that hill? There are just skeletons in Vnavka. " And showed on a small hollyk on the banks of the sister's river. "There are channels and airmakes." Apparently, these are people, the Gulagov who built this channel. I'm what I ask for what. Apparently, there, in addition to the villages, in addition to the living souls, there were some burials, cemeteries and so on, who were also flooded?

Most likely, the cemeteries were on the right side. In the village of Parmanovo, where I was told about the channelarmers, I was still thinking that I was glad, I ask: "Red Army women?" - "No, Canalarmeys." There, after all, the channel became a fortification structure and, in fact, all the Channel builders can also be considered by people who were victims of this war, the defense of Moscow. By different sourcesIn the city of Dmitrov, scientific workers were calculated at the local museum, there were from 700 thousand to 1.5 million people from 700 thousand to 1.5 million.

Died or were busy on construction?

Died on construction, mass burials there. I was told in the village of the pilot test, on the shore of the Ikshin reservoir, now there are some structures there the last collective farm field, the cottages began to build on a small mound, and they stumbled upon mass burials. Recently, the builders reconstructed the Volokolamsk highway, built the third thread of the tunnel and the junction at the intersection of the freedom and the Volokolamsk highway, there, under each support, the mass of skeletons, there was a cemetery, and there was a mass of skeletons in Vnavka already under the channels themselves. There, if a person fell, just stumbled, was the order not to stop concrete work, everything is in a continuous pace, and people just gibbles. Described in the literature such a case on the construction of the 3rd gateway, when simply before all the people fell into concrete.

Iskander, another question. Is there such a version that when the Soviet leadership prepared for evacuation from Moscow and when it was believed that Moscow would have to give the Germans, was the plan in general, the floodings of the city itself?

Yes, I also talked about this researchers who are connected with this topic. There is such a Khimkin dam between the Leningrad highway and cottage settlement The current Pokrovsky-Glebovo in Pokrovskoye-Glebovo Park. This dam holds the entire cascade of reservoirs to the north of Moscow - Khimki, Pirogovskoe, Klajazmin, Pestovskoe, Labor and Ikshinsky, is located at 162 meters, like all reservoirs, water in the Moscow River is located in the center of the city at 120 meters, that is, The difference of 42 meters, and there, as I was told, a ton of explosives was laid, including this dam and her dead volume, which is already below the reset of floodwater, below the reset of the Khimki River, which flows out of it, and this thread could simply convert Capital. I spoke with a veteran, former head Canal, we sat on the third floor of the building near the 7th gateway at the intersection of just the Volokolamsk highway and the streets of Freedom, he says: "Here, we sit on the third floor, the stream just, according to our calculations, it was before that level could " And then the mass of even high-rise buildings would almost be flooded.

But there are no documentary evidence of these plans, as I understand it? There are only such evidence of people oral?

Yes. And there they were told there, when they disassembled the bridge over the Klyazmin reservoir old, now there is built a new bridge on Dmitrovskaya highway, and there already in the 1980s found explosives in huge quantities.

Which, apparently, was intended for the explosion.

For an explosion of the bridge. And here this territory is closed, there in the 1980s could be drove along this dam, and it was "brick" and it was written from "20.00 to 8.00", that is, on the evening, the road was only closed, and now it is completely closed, fenced by a fence barbed wire And this area is absolutely inaccessible.

Actually, when we say that there are no documentary evidence, documentary evidence, you can also assume that we simply have no access to all documents, because, as you know, our archives are revealed, but very lazy, I would say.

And this story in the form of a legend for a long time I went and attributed that it was the idea of \u200b\u200bHitler after the arrival of the Germans to flood Moscow. The play was such an Andrei Vishnevsky "Moskaa Zee", "Moscow Sea". Such a reconstruction, when after the victory of Hitler's boats stroll ...

This is how purely propaganda was a move that Hitler was going to flood.

And maybe it was a certain preparation for what they themselves could flood.

Yes, the transformation of real events.

By the way, comrade Hitler himself, after all, also started such an operation in Berlin.

Yes, here, according to these operations, it can be seen that very little difference between two dictators when it comes to saving your own life, then the dictator is ready to sacrifice lives own people. In the film "Liberation" was such an episode when the gateways on the River Spree and the damper were opened ...

Yes, and actor Oolanin, who played Captain Tsvetaeva.

Which was killed heroic. In different ways can be treated for this film, also in many way propaganda, but there was a stunning scene, when the Germans, just five minutes ago, former opponents, they carried out wounded together, held together a line of cocoa, so that women and children can come first Station "Unter Den Linden", right next to Reichstag.

By the way, I could say about the film "Liberation" that, yes, really perceived it and absolutely, probably, as a film, first of all, propaganda, but there are quite a lot of real events of war, of which every person unbiased can make its own conclusions . I remember, for example, a lot of episodes from the film "Liberation", which made me attempts perfectly, maybe not those that the authors of the film were expected. And about how Comrade Stalin gave orders to take certain cities at all costs and so on. Therefore, it also has its own, so to speak, maybe historical even value, this film. By the way, in my opinion, not only in Berlin was preparing flooding. It seems to me that else somewhere, in my opinion, was the option of flooding the city in Poland? No, there was an explosion, there to blow up, in my opinion, they wanted krakow completely.

As for Krakow, I think it is, rather, too, from the field of legend, because Krakow is very high ...

There, indeed, there was no flooding. First, thank you for you that you are open, although, maybe, not completely, but they opened another page of the history of the war. To what extent it seemed to you that you were opened, and how many more closed in this page?

Oh, very much closed. In general, a very interesting topic of the relationship of military leadership for the civilian population. Just the other day, Meimoirs of the director Meyerhold Alexander Nesterov were published. This is such a titanic feat of the Moscow poet of Herman Lukomnikova, who had exilet, literally assembled diary records of the time of war, 1941-42, in Taganrog. And when I read these diary records Nesterov, I just got his hair end. It seemed to me that I read excerpts from the "1984" Orwell, when bombs are systematically reset to the city of London, people die with art prints. Gibbles Russian people, fired around the whole winter of 1941 and in the summer of 1942, the city was fired, his residential neighborhoods, people were fired, fired and reset bombs on residential buildings. The front-line city of Rostov passed several times and was engaged in Soviet troops again. And from these diary records you can see the attitude of people to this: "The Bolsheviks dropped bombs, the Bolsheviks fired the city."

That is, both parties who fought with the civilian population were not considered, it can be concluded that I think. By the way, if you look at losses in the Second World War, not only Soviet Unionbut also all participants on both sides as antihytler coalitionAnd supporters of Germany, you can see that purely military losses - the ratio, of course, in each country its own, it all depends on the degree of participation in the war - but the civilians died much more than on the battlefields.

Yes. At the same time, I did not hear, for example, the Germans bombed by the Soviet troops of Königsberg. This was not.

Well, there are, of course, examples of such human-saving. To them, too, probably, you can relate differently. Many, for example, believe that the same French by giving way to Hitler quickly enough, we know, there are practically no resistance, there was that way they just saved the lives of people and saved the city, the same Paris, relatively speaking by the Germans, he remained so which was. And there are still many discussions so far on the topic of the blockade of Leningrad. This is a heavy topic. There is a crazy number of people. First, that this blockade could be avoided if he had more wisely, or more rational at least politics in relations with Finland, on the one hand.

Well, yes, there is a difficult story.

And in any of the occupied cities, after all, there was no such situation as in Leningrad. In the memoirs of Guderian I read, his records where he spoke about the supply of products that ads posted that products are in sufficient quantitySo that the population does not worry in Orel, for example.

So people sacrificed without regardless of anything, without counting. And I really can even be answering many of our listeners who often write to us why we are about it, about this, about this, I once again want to remind you that we have a program about the price of victory. The price of victory, I emphasize the word "price", could have been different, in our opinion. And the price of victory, which is primarily expressed by the number of dead, the number of human lives given and put on the altar of this victory. And just to figure it out, because the victory at all costs is very often happening, it seems to me that Pyrrhie Victory. In any case, you need to be able to critically look at your past and somehow understand it. Iskander, how do we speak in an interview with writers, your creative plans? Will you continue this topic? Will you still do it, some investigations, research?

In the next issue, we plan to continue this topic in the Moscow region. I think those memoirs Nesterov, who are literally published on the Internet, they deserve to talk separately about them. It is very interesting. This is a miracle that such entries are preserved. After all, it was dangerous to keep them. There is, for example, such a record: "The inhabitants of Taganrog celebrate the anniversary of the liberation of the city from Bolsheviks." This is a miracle that such records have been preserved.

The miracle that they have survived in the hands of individuals, because, I think that such evidence is quite a lot. Another thing is that they all got, as they said "where necessary". I think that many listeners probably remember, I have now spent several programs with a researcher from Veliky Novgorod, which is engaged in collaborationism during the war. And there are a lot of documents. I even went to Veliky Novgorod and saw a lot of documents preserved since then, where there are a lot of evidence of how it all happened. The occupation is also a very difficult such topic. So there are any documents, evidence.

After all, Novgorod is a city that has been occupied almost four years.

Smaller, there are Pskov, in my opinion, the longest was under German occupation. Well, well, I thank Iskander Kuzeva for our today's conversation. And with you, dear listeners, we say goodbye to the next program. Good luck, goodbye.
The original is taken by W.

The internationally recognized term "collaborationism" denotes the cooperation of the local population of the occupied territories with the fascists during the Second World War. In Ukraine, almost a quarter of a century "independent" existence are made attempts to justify traitors. In this series - decrees on the elimination of Soviet monuments and the destruction of them without any decrees, about honoring Hauptman Shukhevich and Bandera, about the recognition of the boils of the EAP veterans, about withdrawal from libraries to destroy the "communist-chauvinistic literature" and others. All this is accompanied by uble incessant attempts "At the scientific level" of Ukrainian nationalists, up to the complete denial of such a phenomenon, like Ukrainian collaborationism, in the writings of V. Kosik, O.Magiriv, M. Kovlya, V.Sergiichuk, etc.
It is necessary to remind the well-known facts. All leaders of the Wire OUN - E.Konovalez, A. Melnik, S. Bandard, Y.Sthetsyko - were agents of German special services since the 1930s. This was confirmed by the same testimony of the Colonel Abver E.Shtolz: "In order to attract the broad masses for subversive activities against the Poles, we were recruited by the head of the Ukrainian nationalist movement Colonel of the Petlyurian army BeloEmigran Konovalets ... Soon Konovalez was killed. OUN led Andrei Melnik, who, like a horse, we attracted to cooperation with German intelligence ... In the late 1938 or in early 1939, a meeting was organized with Melnik, during which the latter was recruited and received the book "Consul" ... Germany was stiguously preparing for the war against the USSR and therefore measures were taken to activate subversive activities through the Abver line, because The events that were conducted through Melnik and others. Agents seemed insufficient. To this end, a prominent Ukrainian nationalist of Bandera Stepan was recruited, who during the war was the Germans exempted from prison, where he was concluded by the Polish authorities for participating in the terrorist attack against the heads of the Polish government "
Almost all commanders of the Bandera UPA (not to be confused with the destroyed by Bandera with the help of the NAP Bulby-Borovets' NAP Bulbya in the late 1942-1943) - former officers of German parts. 1939: "Ukrainian Legion", he is a special unit of Bergbauerhhalfe (R. Sushko, I.Korachevsky, E.Lotovich), who fought as part of the Wehrmacht against Poland. 1939 - 1941: Abver battalions "Roland" and "Naptigal" (Hauptman R.Shukhevich, Schurmbannfür E. Pobigiguchikova, Hauptmans I. Grinokh and V.Sydor, Oberst-Lieutenanta, Y.Lopatinsky and A. Lutenant, Lieutenants Abwehn, L. Yortinsky, M. Anlasyak, P. Melnik) - they all subsequently moved to the Schuzmanshftbalon-201 police officer, and from him in the UPA. The commander of the Bukovinsky Kurenya and the Military Referent OUN (M) of P. Dvyanovsky - Schurmbannfürer and the commander of a separate punitive battalion of the SS in Kiev. P.Dyachenko, V.Gerasimenko, M. Soltys - Commanders of the Ukrainian Legion of Self-Defense, OUN (M) on Volyn, He "Schuzmanshftbatalong-31", suppressed Warsaw uprising in 1944. As well as B.conic (SB-45), I. Cedyumich (SB-303) - the executioners of Baby Yara; K.Smovsky (SB-118) - on his conscience of Khatyn; SB No. 3 - Kitelis. And the numerous "Ukrainian Auxiliary Police" (K. Zvarych, Gorhvalinsky, D. Kupyak), in 1943 in the full composition of the "Galicin" division into the Division. This is not counting the diverse teams "Abrasherstell" (M.Kostyuk, I.ONunik, P. Glyun). It is impossible to disagree with the thesis of the famous Canadian scientist V.V. Polishchka that "OUN was launched at Velikonіmechchinі up to 9 grass 1945. Tіlki in Oun Bandery Bula Nurse - up to 3 mіsyatsіv - Overwhelming of Spіvdії's boots - TSI Kolya was identified by €

On the day of the Defender of the Fatherland, it is worth reminding you who fought Russian soldiers and where at this time there were defenders of other Fatherland

This year we will celebrate the 70th anniversary of the victory of the Soviet Union in World War II. Therefore, on the day of the defender of the Fatherland, it is worth recalling again, with whom the Russian soldier fought and where at this time there were defenders of other Fatherland.

This turns out that many European countries would be more logical than on May 9 not to celebrate the day of victory in the Second World War, but to remember their shameful capitulation. After all, almost the entire continental Europe by 1941, in one way or another entered the third Reich. From those who existed by June 1941 two more than dozen european countries nine - Spain, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia and Croatia - together with Germany and Austria, they entered the war against the USSR.

The rest, too, long resist the enemy:
Monaco - 1 day, Luxembourg - 1 day, Netherlands - 6 days, Belgium - 8 days, Yugoslavia - 12 days, Greece - 24 days, Poland - 36 days, France - 43 daysAnd then actually joined the aggressor and worked for its industry.
Even allegedly neutral countries - Switzerland and Sweden did not remain aside. They provided fascist Germany the right of free transit through their territory of military cargoes, and also received huge trading income. The turnover of "neutral" Portugal with the Nazis was so successful that in May 1945 she announced a three-day mourning due to death Hitler.
But it is not all.
- National affiliation of all those who died in battles in the Russian front, to establish difficult or even impossible. But the composition of military personnel, captured by our army during the war is known. Germans and Austrians - 2,546,242 people; 766,901 people belonged to another war on the nations: Hungarians, Romanians, Italians, Finnam and Other, but another 464 147 prisoners of war are the French, Belgians, the Czechs and representatives of others seem to have fought European states with us - leads terrible betrayal figures historian Vadim Skeinov. - And while this multinational army tried victory in the Russian front, Europe was, in general, on the side of the Third Reich.

That is why, according to the memoirs of the participants, during the signing of the act of capitulation of Germany on May 8, 1945, the head of the German delegation from Field Marshal KaitelTo see among those present at the ceremonies of people in the French military uniform, could not restrain surprise: "How?! And these, too, won us, or what?! "
Interestingly, Field Marshal would say today by Europeans, calling out to celebrate the Victory Day without the participation of Russia. Probably reminded that the Wehrmacht won their countries faster than a couple of houses of Stalingrad.

Remembered: Stalin was sure that the Germans would burst into Moscow, but planned to defend ​ lucky house - before the approach of fresh divisions from Siberia.

On October 12, 1941, the NKVD was organized by 20 groups of security officers: to protect the Kremlin, the Belarusian station, the ocoge series and sabotage in the areas of the capital, which can be captured. 59 secret warehouses with weapons and ammunition were arranged around the city, mined hotels "Metropol" and "National" mined, big theater, Central Telegraph and ... The Church of Vasily Blessed - someone occurred to someone that in the event of the capture of Moscow, Hitler will arrive there. Meanwhile, British historian Nicholas Reeds In 1954, he suggested that if the soldiers of the Third Reich joined Moscow, the Stalingrad Scenario would happen. That is, the Wehrmacht isolating himself in multi-day battles from home to the house, then the troops come from Far EastAnd then the Germans are capitula, and the war ... ends in 1943!

Zeniters guarding the city. Great Patriotic War. Photo: RIA Novosti / Naum Granovsky

Fact No. 2 - Panic began officials

... October 16, 1941 State Committee. Defense adopted a resolution "On the evacuation of the capital of the USSR". Most understood it so - from day to day, Moscow will give away Germans. Panic began in the city: the subway was closed, stopped walking trams. Party officials rushed out of the city, the party officials rushed, and yesterday they called for "War to Victory". Archival documents testify: "On the very first day, 779 managers of institutions and organizations escaped from the capital, bringing out money and values \u200b\u200bby 2.5 million rubles. Risen 100 passenger and trucks "These managers took their families on them." Having envy, as the bosses take away from Moscow, the people, picking up the nodes and suitcases, also rushed away. Three days in a row highway were clogged with people. But

Muscovites are building anti-tank fortifications. Photo: RIA Novosti / Alexander Ustinov

FACT number 3 - the Kremlin did not consider

... It is believed that the Wehrmacht is stuck at 32 km from the then Moscow: the Germans managed to capture the village of Krasnaya Polyana, next to the Lobney. After that, information appeared that the German generals, climbing the bell tower, considered the Kremlin in binoculars. This myth is very stable, but from the Red Polyana Kremlin can only see the summer, and then in absolutely clear weather. It is impossible in the snowfall.

December 2, 1941. Worked in Berlin American journalist William Shirermade a statement: according to his information, today the interoffalon of the 258th division of the Wehrmacht invaded the village of Khimki, and from there the Germans with the help of binoculars overlooked the Kremlin tower. How did they succeed, it is not clear: from Khimki Kremlin is already not visible. Plus, the entire Vibission division on that day, miraculously avoided the environment in a completely different place - in the Yushkov-Burtsevo area. Historians have not yet come to a single opinion, when the Germans appeared in Khimki (now there is a monument to defense - three anti-tank hedgehogs) - October 16, November 30th or yet on December 2. Moreover: in the archives of the Wehrmacht ... there is no confirmation of the attack on Khimki.

Fact number 4 - frosts were not

…Commander of the 2nd Tank Army Reich General Gainz Guderian After the defeat of Moscow accused of his failures ... Russian frosts. Say, the Germans by November would have been drinking beer in the Kremlin, but they were stopped by terrible cold. Tanks are stuck in the snow, the guns shown - frozen lubrication. Is it so? On November 4, 1941, the temperature in the Moscow region was minus 7 degrees (it was rained in October, and the roads of Raskisli), and on November 8 - and at all zero (!). On November 11-13, the air was zaled (-15 degrees), but soon it was warm up to -3 - and it is difficult to call "terrible cold." Severe frosts (under minus 40 °) hit only to the very beginning of the counter-offentenance of the Red Army - December 5, 1941 - and could not radically change the situation at the front. The cold played his role only when the Soviet troops drove the Wehrmacht's army back (here is the tanks of Guderian and really did not start), but stopped the enemy near Moscow with ordinary winter weather.

Two redarmeys are standing next to an inverted German tank, hit in the battle near Moscow. Photo: RIA Novosti / Minkevich

Fact number 5 - Battle for Borodino

... On January 21, 1942, the Russian and French met the Russian and French on the Borodino field for the second time in 130 years. On the side of the Wehrmacht fought "Legion of French volunteers against Bolshevism" - 2452 soldiers. They instructed to defend Borodino from the upcoming soviet troops. Before attacking the legion meters turned marshal von Klege: "Remember Napoleon!" For several days, Legion was defeated - half of the soldier died, hundreds were captured, the remaining frostbite was taken to the rear. As in the case of Bonaparte, the French on the Borodino can not be lucky.

... On December 16, 1941, Hitler, hit by the flight of his army from Moscow, issued an order similar to Stalinsky, "Neither step back!". He demanded to "hold the front to the last soldier," threatening the distribution teams. The head of the 4th army headquarters Gunter Bluemenitrite in his book "Fatal solutions" indicated: "Hitler instinctively realized that the retreat in the snow would lead to the breakdown of the entire front and our troops will suffer the fate of the Napoleon Army." So it ultimately came out: after three and a half years, when Soviet soldiers entered Berlin ...

The Borodino Museum was destroyed and burned by the Germans during the retreat. The picture was made January 1942. Photo: RIA Novosti / N. Popov